There can be no victory without sacrifice

Interview with Badaruddin Ismail, better known as Pak Din

When and where were you detained?

I was arrested at about 8.50 am on 26 April 2001 at a stall in Medan Selera, Taman Melawati, Kuala Lumpur while having my morning tea.

Who arrested you and how did they arrest you?

I was arrested by ASP Ibrahim Omar, who was not in uniform then. He asked me my name, I confirmed it and he then told me I was being arrested under Section 73 (1) of the Internal Security Act, saying:

a. I (ASP) believe there are grounds to detain you (Pak Din) under Section 8 of the ISA (1960) and

b. I (ASP) believe you (Pak Din):
i. have acted in a manner prejudicial to the security of Malaysia.
ii. will act in a manner prejudicial to the security of Malaysia
iii. may act in a manner prejudicial to the security of Malaysia

I was ordered to follow them to a Proton Wira without being handcuffed. I was handcuffed after entering the car. I was then taken to the Jalan Travers police station in Bangsar, Kuala Lumpur.

What happened after that?

At the Jalan Travers police station, they formally recorded my arrest. From there, I was taken to an unknown place. My spectacles were taken away and I was instructed to wear dark glasses that made it impossible for me to see anything

How far was it from the Jalan Travers police station to the place of detention and how long did the journey take?

The journey took 30-40 minutes.

Can you describe what happened after that?

I was given a detention number and my name was not used again after that. I was also given a pail, a blanket, two mugs, a small water bucket, a toothbrush, toothpaste, bath soap, washing soap, and two pairs of blue uniform. I was then taken to a detention cell.

How big was the cell?

It was 8 feet wide, 9 feet long and 12 feet high.

What was in the cell?

There was a plywood platform for sleeping on that was 2½ feet wide and 6 feet long. Besides that, there was a bathroom measuring 2½ feet by 3 feet with a wall of about 2½ feet high.

What about windows and the temperature in the detention cell?

The window was about 6 inches by 9 inches and food was passed in through it. It was warm in the cell, enough to make one perspire between 6 pm and 9 pm.

Could you tell day from night?

I could, because the light would enter the room through a thick glass pane fixed to the highest wall.

What about medical treatment?

Medical treatment was given every Friday. The check-up included body weight and blood pressure. Other medicine was given on request.

Were the meals given to you satisfactory?

The meals were satisfactory and on time.

Did your weight increase or decrease during detention?

During the first week, my weight dropped by 3 kg, the second week by half a kilo and after that it remained unchanged until I was released. All in, I lost 3½ kg.

How many interrogation officers were there and did they introduce themselves?

Altogether, there were six people, and they did not introduce themselves nor were they in uniform.

When did they carry out the interrogation and for how long?

They began the interrogation from the second day. It was carried out daily during the daytime (office hours) for 3-6 hours.

Did they torture you physically?

They didn’t torture me physically.

What about mental torture?

Solitary confinement and the heavy restriction on my freedom is equivalent to mental torture. Separation from my loved ones and isolation from the community, to me, constituted mental torture. The condition and the mere fact of my detention was enough to cause great tension in my being. Still, I tried to calm myself to face each day.

How long were you detained under the ISA?

I was detained for 40 days, 5 hours and 10 minutes.

What are your feelings about your ISA arrest and detention?

My sixth sense told me that I would be released by them (police) as they had no evidence to detain me. Still, I was distressed by the arrest because our struggle is not directed at bringing about anything detrimental to the people of Malaysia. Our struggle is to uphold our rights as Malaysian citizens, rights that are guaranteed by the Constitution.

Do you feel any sense of regret over your detention?

I have no regrets about my detention under the ISA because my detention has given true meaning to the struggle for justice and truth.

Will you continue your work in opposing human rights abuses?

I will continue this struggle as long as I am able-bodied and I will continue to urge everyone to take on the issue of human rights violations as our common problem.

What advice or appeal would you give to the public?

I appeal to those who love truth and justice to oppose human rights abuses and make a sacrifice (even risk being arrested by the authorities) to continue the struggle.

The main hindrance is that our immediate family (mother, father, wife, children and siblings) will try to discourage us from continuing the struggle. To the families of our freedom fighters, I urge: allow them to continue the struggle and give them your full support. This struggle is a sacred struggle to uphold our rights in a democratic nation. It is in the interest of humanity. What is the point of being an independent nation when our rights as human beings are violated?

In parting, I would like to say “there can be no victory without sacrifice.”

Pak Din was released by the police on 5 June 2001 after 41 days in ISA detention. He was held incommunicado for 29 days before being allowed his first family visit on 25 May. Pak Din is one of the secretariat members of Suaram and was previously detained on 24 October 1998 for seven days. On that occasion he was severely beaten up and had to receive eight stitches on the right of his forehead.